James Purnell takes on Cameron

Here's a quote from the speech:

There is one aspect of the Tory sales pitch I agree with. Cameron has said many times that we shouldn't judge him on where he's come from but where he's going.

Absolutely: I couldn't care less where he went to school or who his parents are. It's where he's going that worries me, not where he's been.


Because I don't think, in his heart of hearts, he knows who he is any more. At every stage in his life David Cameron has just drifted with the orthodoxy around him. The answer, for him, is always blowing in the wind.

So when people say he's really right wing they're almost right. He was really right wing once. He wrote the 2005 manifesto, after all. But then the wind changed direction so he turned with it. He loved free markets and Thatcher when all his friends did. He no doubt believed the same as Norman Lamont, when he worked for him.

He bears, as was said of Lord Derby, the imprint of the person who sat on him last. And we were the last people to sit on him. His team worked out that New Labour was popular. This was attractive to Cameron: looks like a new orthodoxy. Better join up.

This is the real charge against the Tory leader: that he has no settled convictions. He just has bits and pieces along the way. And you can't lead if you are confused.
When he wrote that 2005 Manifesto, he forgot to mention the environment. When he became leader, his focus groups told him the environment was a bridge issue back to the centre ground. He wanted to become new. So off he went to the Arctic Circle.

Vote Blue, Go Green, we were told.

Then the oil price went up, the focus groups turned and all of a sudden he's less keen. So now we find him, at Prime Minister's questions, attacking the very green taxes that he himself had proposed a few months earlier.


His politics are like the parting in his hair. One week it's on the right, then it shifts to the left, then all of a sudden it's down the middle.



I particularly like the line about "He bears the imprint of the person who sat on him last.  And we were the last people to sit on him."

To read the rest of the speech, click here

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Re: Cracking Speech from James Purnell (#1)

"This is the real charge against the Tory leader: that he has no settled convictions"

Remind me, why exactly did Gordon Brown want, for so long, to be PM? The only conviction he had was that he wanted to be PM. That's it. Nothing else.

Re: Cracking Speech from James Purnell (#2)

Purnell = another "Labour First" convert they're covertly positioning to foist on us after they get rid of Gordon.  Though I doubt Purnell even realises the plsn LF have for him yet.  When is this shadowy outfit going to be properly exposed?

Re: Cracking Speech from James Purnell (#3)

Explain to the rest of us who are not on the inside of the political machines- what exactly is "Labour First"? I've seen it bandied around here before but Googling it just gives something in Australia.

Re: Cracking Speech from James Purnell (#4)

That's the point.  They are graudally taking control of the party without anyone noticing - Ray Collins as the new GS is just one example.  When are the MSM journalists
 who crawl this site going to start to investigate LF properly?  It's nearly recess, guys, think of it as a nice take to work on during the "silly season".

Re: Cracking Speech from James Purnell (#34)

Well James Purnell's not far from being a Tory leader himself isnt' he?

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#5)

Hilarious delusional stuff - from the same parallel universe in which Gordon has had a good first year.  No wonder Labour is doing so well with such visionary statesmen in charge. But perhaps it is a coded attack on Blair and Brown??

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#6)

Then the oil price went up, the focus groups turned and all of a sudden he's less keen. So now we find him, at Prime Minister's questions, attacking the very green taxes that he himself had proposed a few months earlier.

 

Or maybe he takes the more sensible position of "Why tax people for purchasing something 7 years ago?"

The consistent proposals see the Tories adopting heavy taxes on the worst polluting cars, not family cars, but the worst polluting. This new tax is just to punish people who made a choice 7 years ago. The Green Agenda is still on the table and he's made several speeches since about that.

 

That said though, Purnell is often seen as Dangerous by the Tory Party proper. Unlike Balls, Brown [infact 98% of the cabinet bar James Purnell] he "gets" what the New Conservatives are about.

Just a shame he cannot actually come up with any policies to counter what the Tories are proposing and is just nicking their ideas and putting the NL spin on it [Umpteen new forms, 12 extra layers of burecracy and more tax]

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#8)

Just a shame he cannot actually come up with any policies to counter what the Tories are proposing and is just nicking their ideas and putting the NL spin on it

That's hilarious, James Purnell is stealing all his own ideas (Cameron and his Nu Tories nicked them from us in the first place).

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#7)

When oil prices rise 40% in 6 months, there is no need for green taxes to reduce demand.

Even a child can see that: and with new car sales falling.. it's having a  major impact on the real world and Government Revenues.

Purnell is attacking Cameron based on an illusion: at present prices, oil consumption will fall becuase people can no longer afford profligate use of oil.

Simple economics:  which I suspect is giving Mr Darling nightmares.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#9)

Thank God we can rely on Gordon Brown.  A man of principle and courage who just gets on with the job.

Excuse me while I crack up with laughter...just couldn't keep a straight face anymore..

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#10)

This is not the same Purnell who told me that New Labour has idea about getting the sick and the disabled back to work, then removed all the exemptions put in place by a Labour government many many years ago, and then stated the Tories will be worse, how worse.

Purnell could have walked into the Tories and been on their front bench within a year, he is Tory through and through, the bloke is going to the top with New Labour kill or cure he is going to me PM

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#13)

Purnell is not a Tory anymore than Blair was a Tory. It's a gut thing whether you are Tory or Labour, and Purnell is Labour. And he's not going to go for "easy" power by "walking into the Tories" anymore than Blair did by "walking into the SDP" circa 1983. But yes, the Tories will try to tease gullible Labour people by claiming he is one of theirs - they like to claim anyone or anything vaguely successful. Not so long ago they were claiming Ed Balls, and now they are trying to claim the NHS.

One thing I'm so proud of about the current Labour party is how people at parliamentary level are prepared to stick, through thick and thin. Big contrast to the Tories in John Major's days, when they were all defecting like crazy.

Whether Purnell will be PM - we'll see. Gordon Brown will lead Labour into the next election, in accordance with the Labour tradition of letting leaders face the electorate at least once. But he will step down in the next Parliament.

The decision for his potential successors if whether they want to succeed him as PM or as Leader of the Opposition. I think they want to succeed as PM, which means fighting hard to win the next general election...  Good on Purnell for having the gumption to stand and fight. I hope the others follow his example.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#11)

It's a nice line of attack. But the problem is whether, in policy terms, one could distinguish between Cameron and Purnell.

In his article he more or less admits this:

"It's perhaps harder to see the choice than it was. But I think of politics like a long journey and political parties like the carriages of a train. They are running on parallel lines. They leave the station together, pass through the same stations, speed through the same countryside".

But then one train arcs gently to the left and the other gently to the right and they end up in completely different places... hmm.

It's like a Nineteenth Century Whig attacking a Nineteenth Century Tory - modernist and free traders against conservatives. He calls himself a "radical" but it is hard to see just where that radicalism lies - it is not to me recognisably a radicalism of the left. It is a radicalism of the neo-liberal ascendency.

At least Purnell is attempting to look at some core beliefs, albeit from a Whig perspective. Those of us who consider ourselves socialist would do well to do the same.

But, choose Purnell, and perhaps we will see the final destruction of that great alliance between the the liberal left and working people that transformed 20th Century politics. Perhaps, in terms of our politics, we will turn the clock back 100 years or more - to the landscape that existed before 1906.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#12)

You know Purnell has hit a nerve when a whole bunch of Tories swarm on here to rubbish the speech! :-)

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#14)

I see s-camerons press gang are out in force..a good job well done Mr Purnell.It seems the Murdochs love scameron now but only a few years ago when dave was working for calton t.v. the suns business editor was heard to say that he thought "david cameron was one of the most slipery,slimey people he had ever inerviewed".I think S-cameron is deeply untrustwothy as he proved when he told people who were buying digital tv from carlton that they shouldn't worry about their expensive digital systems as itv digital was here to stay BUT what happened only a few weeks later,OH YES , they went bust,i was always told to never trust a snake oil salesman and i must say i can smell the snakeoil from here and it stinks.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#15)

Yes it was an excellent first-rate speech.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#16)

Trying to work out who here is a troll and should be deleted.

Thoughts anyone?

Alex
alexhilton@gmail.com
07985 384 859

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#17)

Suspected trolls? orzr, NB, AngryVoter, madasafish, PhillipBristol, BritishAsian and many others!

But don't delete them. Just put a flag against their names with "Suspected Troll", that will be visible every time they post.  That way they can have their say but no-one will quote them thinking that these are Labour voices.

Many of them post on LabourHome because Conservative Home is so tightly controlled - eg ConHome doesn't let readers post their own articles and blogs. They have more freedom here, which is why they hang out here.

Back on topic - the unusual thing about the Purnell speech is that everyone in Labour - Compass, Blairite, Brownite, Kinnockite, you-name-it-ite liked the speech. Very unusual. He's someone to watch.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#18)

I'm quite enjoy several of your "suspected trolls"...

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#19)

I'm sure you do! Some on the left of our party are quite keen on Conservatives "helping" to defeat New Labour. And some people people simply enjoy having a good argument with the opposition, and why not.

Which is why I don't think they should be deleted, just have a flag by their name. I'm all for honest discussion - I just don't like people pretending to be Labour and then deliberately saying anti-Labour things here in the hopes that some member of the press will come here and quote them saying "Labour grassroots say..." in order to destabalise our party.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#20)

Well I sincerely hope you are not including me in your insulting and baseless reference to the left.

It's not very long since our Prime Minister brought Digby Jones into the cabinet - so I don't know what that tells us about "New Labour".

I don't happen to think we should be afraid of debate and ideas.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#22)

I don't think we should be afraid of debate either. But the key is "honest". People pretending to be Labour when they are really Tory or LibDem are being dishonest about their true agendas. I don't understand why people want to pretend anyway.

Am not sure to be frank why Tories wish to hang out on a Labour site. It's not as though they are going to be able to convert any of us to voting Conservative, are they? It must be because they are hoping to ferment mischief with the press thinking that their comments are from labour people. 

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#24)

Oh please Snowflake, I'd take that as libellous if you said that to my face.

I come here [and often point out I am a Tory supporter] for the debate with my "Colleagues from the left" because I am interested in seeing where we match and where we differ. More often than not we agree on the same core problems, but our difference in execution is massive.

Folks who have debated with me on this site know I'm not a troll and anybody accusing it straight off of the bat should ruddy well grow up and get some thick skin.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#26)

I agree. I have debates with you. Madasafish, and NB et al. are trolls.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#37)

In what way am I supposedly a "troll"?

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#46)

Well you're not exactly open about which party you support...(or at least, you weren't when you first posted).

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#54)

I just think you make very sneery remarks, and will jeer at anything to do with left-wing opinions and Labour itself. If you want to debate opinions, rather than dismiss the, then you're perfectly free to post here.

I have had interesting discussions with AngryVoter, The Right Direction, and other conservatives, but they debate me.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#21)

Don't forget FreedomAndTruth, that one even has the cheek to do full on Tory propoganda blog posts.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#23)

I hang out here because of the debates, thank you snowflake5, I don't post articles on ConHome but do post comments there regularly.

I actually said that Purnell is seen as dangerous because he gets the "New Tories". Beyond that what he said seemed a little flat and I rubbished it, largely because he's taken Tory proposed policies in regards to welfare and applied them while trying to make out he was somehow doing something "original". The rest of it is just a gentle teasing prod because it seems whenever I do anything vaguely related towards governmental things I have to fill in umpteen forms.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#28)

Well of course you don't post articles on ConHome - Conservative Home doesn't allow people to post their own stuff at all.

You seem to have got rather hot under the collar at being labelled Tory. Ashamed?

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#29)

See comment #24, Snowflake. The only troll I am seeing here in this thread right now is you purposefully running around trying to rile people. Like I said, your comments would be libelous if you ever ran around shouting it in people's faces. What I am hot under the collar at is being rather unfoundedly labelled as a "Tory Troll Hur hur hur" without you bothering to check up my posts on this website.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#32)

Oooh! Libel is a very strong threat!

To recap - no-one is proposing shutting you up and preventing you posting. Indeed many of us think it wrong to delete your account as Alex suggested (and as dissenting voices are dealt with on Conservative Home). We are proposing that you be allowed to continue posting whatever you want, but have a "T" next to your name, so that the press don't mistake you for "Labour grassroots", which is what this site is all about.

Your response is "I hate what you said, I want to sue ya for libel". And you give us lectures about free speech? Please! Methinks you are suffering from "political correctness gorn mad", which is very funny coming from a Tory! Go back and read your Voltaire! Of course it's my opinion you are a troll. Will you defend to the death my right to say so? LOL

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#38)

(and as dissenting voices are dealt with on Conservative Home).

I routinely see dissenting voices on ConservativeHome.

 

We are proposing that you be allowed to continue posting whatever you want, but have a "T" next to your name

What about those of us who aren't Labour, but aren't Conservatives either, "I" for Independent?

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#49)

Grow up your like some new labour child dressed in white.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#35)

"your comments would be libelous if you ever ran around shouting it in people's faces"

No - they would be slanderous if he shouted it in your face. It's libellous if he publishes it in some media format - like this blog.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#33)

Au contraire. I disagree with the suggestion that you be deleted and am quite happy that you continue posting and dissenting. I just think that you should be labelled with a "T" so that people don't mistake you for Labour grassroots. Which you are not. And why would you want to be? So why would you object to be labelled as "Tory"? What's your problem?

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#25)

I once was a Labour voter but have never claimed to be one now...and if you think your readers are under the impression I am one, you have a low opinion of their intelligence  - which I don't share.


If you need to flag people to warn your readers, you have a major problem...  :-)

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#27)

Regular readers are perfectly aware you are Tory. But members of the press who come to the site for quotes tend to skim. I know for a fact that they've quoted UKIP people on ConHome as being "Conservative grassroots", even though regular readers of that site knew they weren't. Wouldn't want anyone thinking you were Labour grassroots. Therefore a flag would help - better than Alex's suggestion of simply deleting you.

Would also be fun to have a visual picture of just how many Tories waste their day trying to troll on a Labour site!

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#36)

Hmmmmm...a Troll now am I....how delightful..

Nope.....I am an ex-Labour member who is deeply fed up with the way this shower are running the country.

I will probably vote Tory next election in the vain hope that they might stop some of the madness spreading.  I  have seen the low paid have their taxes rise and their living costs increase. 

I have seen our political masters lunch at the trough...one might expect this with a Tory...but Labour does it just as well, if not better.

I have seen people who I wouldn't trust to run the local chippy in charge of my future.

I have seen political correctness gone mad...today's example a police force that has been forced to apologise for putting a puppy on one of its cards.  Evidently it offends a particular ethnic minority.

Troll....well..if by that you mean someone who is fed up to the back teeth with having everything he believed in destroyed by incompetance and corruption...ok...make me a Troll.

If people on here want to do what this government is doing and sit insulated to popular opinion while the walls fall around them so be it.

Personaly I call it freedom of speech.  Hopefully we will still have that in two years time but I wouldn't bet on it!

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#39)

Well said!

It might be simpler to label those posters who are dyed-in-the-wool I'll-vote-labour-even-if-they-shoot-my-granny types. That way they would only need one description instead of several.

They can label me a troll if they want. I've said repeatedly that I'm not a member of any political party and that includes Labour.

As to other assertions about conservativehome vetting postings, I've made a few postings over there and my experience is that you can be contrary to their views but rude or insulting postings do get removed. I have no problems with this. 

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#40)

Are you the same phillip from bristol who has posted all those bilious comments on the sky website?if you are thew same then when exactly were you a labour supporter?
or are you one of those turncoat labour supporters who likes to blow about in the breeze to see which way the wind blows?The thing is Filthy Phil that you like to bait labour supporters so that does make you a troll and whats worse is you need a web site like the one sky has to decide your veiws for you so that says it all really doesn't it,i live just outside bristol now but lived in barton hill for 7 years and compared to 11 years ago  it is now a vibrant city which actually atracts people from all over the country unlike the shite hole it was before labour came to power.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#42)

Lets have a little look at this..

Tax rises on the Low Paid

Yes, the 10p tax thing happened, but compared to the amount that has been redistributed through tax credits it's a tiny amount, the message is still clear. The low paid are better off under Labour.

Snouts in the trough

A quick examination of Labour sleaze stories indicates a list of charges that involves: Not declaring a small donation to her campaign (Wendy Alexander), submitting campaign accounts late (Peter Hain), a failure to look perform a detailed investigation on a donor (David Abrahams) and an investigation into peerages given to major Labour party donors that concluded with a decision of no wrongdoing (Levy).

Compare that with:
Paying £40,000 of taxpayers money to your son for doing no work whatsoever (COnway). Paying a nanny from a parliamentry allowance (Spelman). A failure to declare £500,000 of donations for running his office (George Osborne), Claiming a total in £760,000 in expenses for an office run by his wife and daughter (Den Dover)

Political Correctness gone mad

The dog story looks more like a slow news day at the Mail to me, there is no evidence of muslim outrage, just a muslim councillor who's a bit concerned.

Incompetance and corruption...

Examples please, your own thoughts rather than the ones someone else put in your mouth.

All signs are that you are both troll you are and that freedom of speech is wasted on the likes of you.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#43)

Great post Citizen Andreas. I'm fed up of anti-Labour people dominating this site, and a few more genuine Labour types would make this place feel less lonely. I will no doubt be critcised for wanting to end freedom of speech (again), but isn't this supposed to be a site for Labour supporters to debate the future of the party, not to be overwhelmed by those who I suspect (whatever they say) have never voted Labour in their lives.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#44)

Mmm well . . .

 

So far as snouts go, the fact is that the leading light in trying to conceal and protect abuse has been the Speaker. Who is not noted for his sympathy to the Tory Party.

 

I feel obliged to point out also that in my neck of the woods, Milton Keynes, we have one Tory (Mark Lancaster) and one Labour MP (Phyllis Starkey (who to be fair I personally have more time for than some do)).  Mark Lancaster has already published his expenses. Dr Starkey has refused. Wonder why.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#41)

Interesting the number of people who have admitted that they arn't Labour grassroots on this thread. In fact there are more "non-Labour" than Labour on here.

And I suspect that this was true in the monthly tracking poll too - which got reported by the News of the World as "Labour Grassroots", when it is probable that the majority who took part were not Labour at all and wish Labour ill - and crucially they got their chance abuse this site's hospitality in the way the poll got reported.  Turns out Luke Akehurst was right after all.  Alex you have a problem......

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#45)

Well I am a Labour Party member. But I find all this talk of trolls a nonsensical diversion. I've also found Snowflake insulting and frankly somewhat hysterical - firing off insults left right and centre (so to speak).

You either have a closed password protected site (in which case we might as well all retire to the Labour Party's members area) or you engage in a bit of open debate and have the courage of your convictions. It hadn't particularly struck me that people were masquerading and making deliberately misleading posts. It seemed pretty run of the mill stuff until the hysteria took over.

I was more interested in discussing Purnell's speech (which I did, above) before the thread descended into chaos.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#47)

I see that the blogger from Barton 'ill has not benefited from the wonderful edukashan system brought in by his masters and has to resort to abuse. 

I suggest that if this site is restricted to all who believe in the "Word" that you set up a registration system so only union and NuLab members can join.  I know it would mean a very restricted number but at least you can all go on fooling yourselves for two more years..:)

Your turn....

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#50)

PhillipBristol,
nice try but i am actually 40 yaers old so i was taught under the tory government so if you have a problem with my education then its the torys who are to blame and i am not from barton hill i am actually from portishead which has been tory since the 1930s and i don't think i was abusive you poor dear little flower :op
i just stated that there was a phillip from bristol who posted on the sky news site and i thought by the tone of your comments you were probably the same person.
If you are a tory then why not give your pearls of wisdom to them over there on con home as they like people like you there.

I think i proved my point from my first post that Mr Purnell had done a good job as tories were crawling out from under there stones left right and centre and complaining that he was not being very nice to poor Mr Scameron but the truth is that he touched a nerve so CCHQ ordered there minions to attack when really the person who should answer to Mr Purnells speach is demon dave s-cameron himself.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#51)

Scameron, I like it...

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#55)

Thanks CitizenAndreas..i quite like that one myself..i think calling Demon Dave S-cameron a used car saleman as Gordon does in parliment is a little to kind for my liking i think he is a total charlatan who will do anything to make the british public taste his snake oil but they will unfortunatly be to late when they realise his snake oil is not a cure but in fact a placebo that contains nothing but fresh air.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#56)

Doesn't that offend salesmen [and women] though?

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#48)

Freeradical


Well said. 

If sites are to be protected in that way (some say that Con Home is...I don't know because I have never tried to blog on it)....all you do is read comments that agree with you....what's the point?


Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#52)

Mind you...the number of times people blog on here anyway is dire...protect the site and you might as well pack it in...

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#53)

Phillipbristol..if you really don't like the labour party then why not put your money where your mouth is and run as a tory or you could even knock some doors for them and tell the people out there what you want them to hear instead of sitting on your arse moaning and complaining about it.The problem with people like you is that you don't really know what you want and whoever is in power you will no doubt moan and groan about how things are dire but i bet you do nothing about it.I often debate with my wifes cousin why he wants to be a tory in fact a tory mp but the difference between him and you is that he actually believes in his opinions and veiws and is prepared to stand up and be counted and i like that in anyone who has convictions no matter what party they belong to so phill why not put up or shut up mate..have a good day.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#57)

simonmagnus said.."blah blah"

You really are a very humourless bunch aren't you?  I suppose I would be if I was a Labour supporter these days but even then.....come on.

I thought that coming on here might just involve a little reasoned debate..but obviously I was wrong. You have the same small minded approach that the right give to the left on Guido's site...with a little less of the swear words I agree.

You don't know how much support or not I give to anything so why do you think you have the right to make personal judgements on me.  You don't know me any more than I know you.

Can I say that this is a very depressing site...even for a Tory.  There is a whiff of the inevitable in the air...it is very defeatist.  If you really thought that you had an argument then perhaps you could debate it...but you can't.

Oh well....I really can't see the point of blogging to the converted on Tory sites...but there is no rational debate on here.

C'est La Vie

I assume I will now get posts with the vitriol expected.  I don't think I can be bothered to come back and read them...another visit to this site and I will be on Prozac. 

Never mind only two more years to go then you can start complaining about the government.

Ciao

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#58)

PS

It would have been nice if someone could have used their NuLab edukasion to have spelt my name correctly at least once.

Bye

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#59)

Good bye Philip..you poor hard done bye little flower.

Re: James Purnell takes on Cameron (#60)

P.S...You'll be back because you have nowhere else to go Philip.              & nbsp;                 ;